Thanks for bringing up Lost, Erin. Because it’s not that Katniss will become Claire at all. It’s that Katniss is stuck in a cheesy love triangle of “will she choose or will one of these boys die before she has to” shit-for-plot situations that mirrors Lost perfectly. And also happens to mirror many other TV shows and classic love triangles of literature from days gone by. And using that model I don’t even need to keep talking about why Gale rules and Peeta sucks, because many, many other stories have dealt with the same issues for centuries, and they’ve said everything I could possibly say with longer narratives.
And so, in the interest of saving time (and effort), let’s break down this debate by presenting it as every other debate that’s ever existed. Find your favorite love triangle interest and see where you fit in, because this breakdown is for fucking real:
Peeta = Riley. Gale = Spike.
Peeta = King Arthur. Gale = Lancelot.
Peeta = Roy. Gale = Jim.
Peeta = Noel. Gale = Ben.
Peeta = Luke. Gale = Han.
Peeta = Jack. Gale = Sawyer.
Peeta = Aidan. Gale = Big.
And I know, I know. Aidan was pretty great. And Peeta’s a stand up guy, too. It’s just that his love for Katniss isn’t based on real love at all, and that makes them a volatile combination. That’s the case with all of those other triangles, too. Of course, I think that deep down ALL of these love triangles come down to The One Who Objectifies You and The One Who’s Actually Good For You. And there are times when it feels really good to be up on a pedestal. I get that. Some girls like to be treated like princesses. But Katniss isn’t that kind of girl, no matter how much she likes twirling in pretty dresses.
In conclusion, feel free to be Team Peeta as much as you like. But you should really stop reading the Hunger Games series if that’s your cup of tea, because I think you’d prefer sitting down with a nice Nicholas Sparks novel. I hear he’s the best writer ever. Because based on every Nicholas Sparks novel I’ve ever heard about, that audience of stupid Peeta lovers is how he became rich.
Hmmm… I gotta stop writing argumentative essays on FYA and start writing Dear John 2! Erin, I think you’d totally love that shit. And I’d love to spend your money on producing the Hunger Games movies and making sure that the casting gets everything right…
In the meantime, you can totally have fun with Riley.
Related posts:
{ 3 trackbacks }
{ 40 comments… read them below or add one }
Now that you put it that way, I’m totally on the fence again. Riley? ugh. Spike? yum. Shit. I guess MOCKINGJAY will end my dilemma.
Well, I’m clearly the target audience for this post (well, duh, since I love Gale), as my personal preferences go this way:
Spike
Lancelot
Jim
Ben (BEN!! yay!)
Han (duh, Luke was her brother)
Ugh
Double ugh
DAAAAAANG i cannot BELIEVE you just compared peeta to RILEY?!!! i mean, aidan, i get. but RILEY?! and let’s not even start on roy cos that’s plain character defamation and may have cost you all of my respect in this debate.
but then you MAY have gotten it back with the peeta/noel comparison. cos um… yeah, that makes sense. which PAINS ME GREATLY cos i’ve always been a ben girl, even when he was cheating on felicity with avery (ugh).
the only thing more painful than the angst i’m feeling right now is the fact that nicholas sparks is still publishing books. MAKE IT STOP.
oh and I’d like to add this: RILEY BLURGH! Wash your hair and your face, you shiny wimp!
DAAAANG, henri, you know how to deal a low blow. riley?? ben, ok. but not riley. more like angel or spike.
and although i’m a gale girl personally (tho not necessarily for katniss, thank you erin for your brilliant argument), i don’t think peeta objectifies katniss OR puts her up on a pedestal. so in the words of our reader porcelinajune, peeta has croissants – your argument is invalid.
So Gale’s an attempted rapist? Who doesn’t know when to accept defeat and end things on a high note, but instead goes to get a ~*~soul~*~ and sits around moping like a jerk for a season and a half?
Or he’s a conman who can’t manage to unhinge his jaw enough to utter a simple declarative sentence without mumbling? And goes chasing after one of the lamest female characters this side of Two and a Half Men? (Does Two and a Half Men have female characters? I don’t know.)
Or he’s a formerly clever, funny guy who now SUCKS THE LIFE OUT OF THURSDAY EVENINGS AT 8 PM CST?
I dunno, henri. The low blow of Nicholas Sparks suggestions aside (for which I will carry a grudge that will last at least three months, FYI, so expect a lump of coal for your birthday present), your examples aren’t that great (except Han, of course. Call me, Han! Once you get out of Carbon Freeze, I mean!). But maybe that’s just because once I read the ridiculous statement of “Peeta = Riley,” my eyes rolled right out of my head! Peeta! Is Riley! Boy, you cray!
I don’t know; I have my issues with Peeta (esp. the “let’s manipulate the audience by making Katniss take on traditional girl roles!”) to be sure, but I don’t think he puts her on a pedestal. I think he is very, very afraid she may one day kill him, though, and is therefore treating her with caution. (we should all be that smart.)
Okay, first of all, I have SO been trying to up my knowledge of pop-culture, and feeling pretty good about myself until I didn’t know who half of those guys on your list were!!!!!
Anyway, good points all round, however, I believe the best point was that Peeta made decisions FOR Katniss, and that’s not okay.
I have thoroughly enjoyed all of Henri’s excellent metaphors and arguments. (TEAM GALE OR BUST!)
I humbly submit this one, as a huge fan of Battlestar Galactica:
Peeta=Anders, Gale = Apollo
(Katniss is quite obviously Starbuck of course.)
I agree with you. You are my hero.
This blog is hysterical. I love it. Such a great way of spending my afternoon AT WORK.
I am Team Gale ALL THE WAY , when I fantasize about Gale I see someone who is in between Robin Hood and Steve McQueen
Ahahaha!
Gale is not Big. Big is nothing if not an asswipe objectifier taker-for-granted.
Peeta as Riley makes perfect sense to me. Riley was totally the guy that I at first mistook for a nice guy, but then realized he didn’t appreciate the entire person.
I just don’t see Gale as a bad boy. He’s the actual nice guy. I’d actually argue that Gale is Aiden–manly and understanding.
To add–Gale being Aiden doesn’t mean Katniss won’t end up with him. Carrie’s funny, but she’s no Katniss.
What? Even thought you have INCREDIBLY valid points, it breaks my heart to admit it. Is is wrong that a grl just wants some more Peeta?
Plus, can you honestly say that Katniss feels the same way for Gale as she does for Peeta? It doesn’t HAVE to make sense! It’s LOVE! (Haha, this is the exact same point I wrote about over and over in like every other English essay I wrote last year – if there was any romance in the plot then, God-damn-it, I’d sniff it out! And then go on and on about the uncontrollable, inexplicable nature of love, and how man is powerless against such devices. Ugh. I think my English teacher hates me because of how much I go on about it…)
I just think that we can’t all expect Katniss to make the sensible choice. Okay, I can see that maybe she SHOULD choose Gail, but that does NOT mean I want her too, or will be cheering her on AT ALL when she throws EVERYTHING away, and decides to go for the safe option, her little hunting lackey. Who is ugly. (Okay, Holly, you’ve proved your point…now just, very calmly, step away from the keyboard…)
Tonight I went to Disneyland with my kids. And we were riding the Haunted Mansion ride, being silly and trying to convince my four year old that it was all pretend. So outwardly I was in my Super Mommy mode, enjoying my kids and some fake ghosts…but inwardly I was totally thinking, “Hmmm. GALE or PEETA? PEETA or GALE??!!!”
It was kind of disturbing, but even worse, I never came up with an answer. I don’t think I’ll be happy if she ends up with either one because I’ll feel bad for the other (because they’re real obvs). It’s worse than any love triangle I’ve ever read (esp. ones with sparkly granite-chested ochre eyed stalkers vs. annoyingly stinky jorts wearers) because I feel so torn and like there is no clear cut perfect choice. And more disturbing…why can’t I stop thinking about it?
I think the more disturbing question is “why didn’t you take US to Haunted Mansion????”
That would be perfect. A Hunger Games Book Club meeting at Disneyland. Only drawback…they don’t serve alcohol in the park.
but tammy, guess what they DO have in the park? FLASKS! i mean, if you bring them in yrself. as i did when i went to disneyworld. let me just say, it’s a small world? TOTALLY BETTER with alcohol. a little scarier, perhaps, but way more entertaining.
Kate ended up with Jack. JS.
I was a pretty firm Peeta fan from the book but when you have a picture with Ethan Peck as Gale you make me question every choice I’ve ever made in life. *sigh*
I’m going to go out on a limb here and totally rock the boat. What about…
TEAM FINNICK
Think about it. He actually gives a hoot about the revolution. He’s super cute. He’s a good protector and ally but totally trusts girlfriend to take care of herself. They can bond over the loss of their loved ones. He already has a thing for crazy girls…
But seriously. Eff Peeta. I can’t wait for him to die so we can stop having to read about it (sorry guys, just bringin’ the truf). His biggest problem, for me, is that he could not possibly care less about the revolution, and if Katniss is going to stay alive and be any good as a leader she really doesn’t have time to be worried about helpless ol’ Peeta getting beat up or captured or tripping over rocks or some shiz. Plus, let’s remember that in all of the millions of times she’s had to kiss him, she’s actually maybe enjoyed it a little bit exactly twice. TWICE.
Sure she’s thankful for everything he’s done for her, but I feel like everyone on team Peeta has never actually had a Peeta before. Not the idealized devoted manfriend who would do anything for you that you’re ALSO madly in love with, because THAT IS NOT THE CASE. But that annoying guy you just went on a couple of dates with because he seemed to like you so much and you thought maybe you’d warm up to him eventually. Well, that guy just ends up making up more reasons to love you (think “oh my goodness, i just KNEW you’d be the sensible and realistic type! I can totally tell you’d be a great wife because you picked tap water and not sparkling! How frugal!” Gross.) and you. will. never. love. him. You never end up loving him because the sexy thing about dating someone is the chase, guys! It’s all about wondering if he’ll call and obsessing about what to wear and hoping he notices your haircut. There’s nothing in the world more boring than someone who will NEVER notice your own thoughts and feelings because they’re too busy manipulating you into the person they want you to be with little pictures hidden in lockets and ignoring you for months while making you do push-ups.
Ladies, we want someone who will bring home cupcakes after we’ve bombarded them with 2000 text messages about how much our boss sucks, not someone who brings home cupcakes every single day whether we want them or not. There’s no choice in that life, only diabetes.
YES!
I’ve generally stayed out of these comment threads feeling that I’ve said my piece in the original post, but hells yes, Shyloh.
For one, such a good point about how many times she’s had to kiss Peeta and not enjoyed it. That’s just ew, ew, ew. And if there’s no spark at the beginning, your never gonna catch fire.
And double true on not having to worry about some numbnuts who trips over every rock in the field.
I still don’t want Peeta to die, though. I’m hoping he ends up marrying President Snow.
HERE WE GO AGAIN.
you and erin realize you’ll have to go through another round after mockingjay comes out, right? i mean, even if collins kills one of them, which she probably will because it’s the easiest way out of the MOST COMPLEX AND CONTROVERSIAL PREDICAMENT IN ALL OF TIME.
I don’t think Suzanne Collins will avoid the whole ‘love triangle’ situation by killing one of the guys off. That’s such a cheap pretext, and thus far SC has proven to do things better and differently, so I really have faith that she won’t go down that road.
Ultimately, I agree with Henri. And this was spot-on: “The One Who Objectifies You and The One Who’s Actually Good For You.” So Team GALE, but, alas, I suppose we all have to wait and see what actually happens in Mockingjay.
Dizamm, Shyloh! I have to admit you ALMOST have me rethinking my Peeta love with that awesome comment.
Almost.
Until you got to the part about not wanting cupcakes every day, and I had to write off your opinion for communist nonsense.
I’m team peeta and here’s my thoughts…
- I’m a full believer in guy friends being guy friends. If there was a spark after hunting together for years why didn’t Gale say something sooner. I mean they’re teenagers for goodness sake- don’t they want to get laid? If it took Katniss leaving and almost being killed for him to realize that he loves her or some other boy getting into his territory for him to kiss her then it just doesn’t seem as legit to me. Man up Gale!
-So what if Peeta isn’t as into the revolution as Gale or anyone else… He’s a simpleton, and artist and baker. You can’t fault him for not being a fighter. Though her certainly does fight for Katniss
- Also, I don’t think Peeta puts her up on a pedestal he knows she has issues and ok with them- i mean he knows what she’s thinking all the time, her expressions etc… the only reason he’s forced to show his love for her so much was b/c they had to in the Games… if they weren’t picked maybe he never would have…
-whenever their time (peeta and katniss) isn’t pressured by the Games or whoever they really do enjoy each others company – just as much as when she’s with Gale
*Big sucks, Aidan is awesome
Lately everyone seems to fall into two categories. Whether it’s Edward/Jacob, moderate/extremist, democrat/republican, or Peeta/Gale, every one’s on a side. Let’s for a moment concentrate on the last group: Peeta vs. Gale. How come no one’s argued for a three party system yet? Where’s Team Katniss? Team Why-Does-She-Even-Have-to-Choose? Team Maybe-She-Needs-to-Figure-Herself-the-Heck-Out-First?
Seriously, team players, do you even think Katniss is ready for love with either of these boys? Yes, I know she’s 16, and that’s about the age when girls find their first love, but what does Katniss know about love? Her father died when she was young. Her mother spiraled into a deep depression. No one in district 12 seems to have time for it. The only love that Katniss consciously feels is for her sister Prim.
It’s possible that Katniss might not be aware of her existing love for Gale, or her growing love of the boy with the bread, but that’s just the point. She’s clueless. Unless Suzanne Collins has Katniss convince us in her point of view that she’s falling in love, I hope to god that she stays away from both of those boys and works on finding herself—and saving the world.
I’m actually on Team Threesome, to own the truth.
Sorry to be late to the discussion (just got this link from Jezebel, and HI AMAZING WEBSITE).
But I have to say–Gale is so not Spike. Spike sucks. SUCKS. He is a rapey creepy jackass.
Gale is Angel. Think about it: first love; one true love; destined to be together; fought the evil forces (of hell’s monsters/starvation) together; and even WENT THROUGH HELL AT THE HANDS OF HIS BELOVED. Angel, literal hell; Gale, the hell of watching your beloved act all lovey-dovey with another dude.
That said, Peeta is not Riley or Spike. Peeta is Xander.
See, neither of them is evil or wrong, per se. It’s an impossible triangle. It’s so sad. Now I’m depressed just thinking about it.
Hi everyone! I’ve been a long-time lurker of this site, and it’s my first time posting, but I really wanted to join in with a couple points before we all find out what happens in Mockingjay tomorrow!!
Full disclosure: I love both boys, but I might love Gale more.
1. One of the arguments against Gale in this debate that he was a Nice Guy because he never told Katniss he loved her until AFTER the Games, presumably because he only wanted what he couldn’t have. I have to disagree, I think Gale was making it pretty clear he wanted her before she ever left for the Games. I mean, that morning he talked about running AWAY with her. And there was that moment when they were saying goodbye and the Peacekeepers dragged him away while he was saying something that Katniss couldn’t hear and I totally took that to be an interrupted confession of love.
2. I don’t know if anyone made mention of this, but has anyone else noticed Katniss is faced with the same decision her mom had to make? The decision between The Baker or The Hunter? Totally like Meredith Grey or Regina George’s character in The Notebook. So basically the argument boils down to whether or not she will follow her mother’s footsteps.
3. Team Finnick.
Whaaaat? Gale’s a blank! A buddy! Unless he does something significant in this final book, I’m not even sure why there’s a debate at all. Peeta is a good guy, but more importantly, the key to the revolution.
I’m all Team Peeta, and I *despise* Nicholas Sparks.
Hate to bring up Twilight, but if we’re doing love triangles Peeta=Jacob, Gale=Edward, and we all know who Katniss=/=Bella gets with in the end of that one. Not all “classic” love triangles have the same ending.
I found this very lats, so sorry for posting so long after the debate, but I must say that I feel you got this match backwards: Peeta = Edward and Gale = Jacob. At least, Gale fits Jacob far better than he does Edward. Both are childhood friends that just now hint at becoming something more, especially when someone new appears. Both are “woodsy, survivalist” types. And both are the “safe” option of the two. Peeta, like Edward, is the “idolizing for no good reason” type, but also is much more complementary to Katniss/Bella’s personality.
Most importantly, we all knew that Bella would end up with Edward; we all knew (deep in our heart of hearts) that Katniss would end up with Peeta. Just sayin’.
I’m on team Peeta but mostly I’m on team Stop It With The Love Triangles Already. Peeta and Katniss had an interesting, unique relationship with the clash between real and fake. Gale’s an interesting character on his own, but why did Suzanne Collins have to make yet another conventional love triangle? Plus, Peeta isn’t riley- Riley is a sexist pig trying way too hard to be a nice guy. Peeta is a genuinely nice guy, more like Xander or Oz.
*Shocked gasp* Gale = Spike. Sorry Henri but everything you’ve written in the past or will in the future is invalid! How dare you, good sir, sully the name of hot-as-sh-t Spike by comparing him to Gale. If it’s a competition of who can get you there and back and there again, Gale is the real Bryan Adams! Plus Riley was kinda hot. Now Angel, uh, there’s a buzz kill.
On the reals, though, if I were 14 I’d be up Gales grill but being older and having some life experience I understand the stability that Peeta represents. In related news, Team Finnick and I seriously need to start getting out of the house.
I know this is way late in the argument but I am just slightly appalled by these metaphors Henri and think your argument was stronger w/o them.
Riley, was a secret government army leader, way more like a Gale than a Peeta. Spike was constantly trying to murder the girl, then eventually gave up & decided to get to know her & then fell for her, not a great romantic start but neither a Gale or a Peeta, just unique & awesome in that Spike like way.
King Arthur I can kind of see as Peeta, with Peeta having a Hamish instead of a Merlin but Lancelot was a married man & best friend to Arthur, he fell for Guinevere at first sight, not knowing her or having anything in common with her, so he is just as much a pansy as Peeta for objectifying the girl but he is even worse b/c he is not a nice guy, betrays a wife & a friend & puts the whole kingdom in jeopardy to get laid, which Gale is too much invested in the rebellion to ultimately choose a girl over battle.
Luke is her brother & besides both him & Han have no history with Princess Leah yet fall for her at first sight probably because she is the first girl take either of them seriously in like the whole galaxy. All three are warriors too & really don’t fit into a Peeta mold.
Peeta = Aidan. Gale = Big
This whole triangle is why I finally came to hate Carrie, both guys were successful business men who weren’t lacking in the girl department and while both were attracted to Carrie, neither were obsessed like Peeta/Gale, and Carrie is & will never grow up to be a Katniss. Now Aidan does I admit have certain Peeta qualities but he was also I think less co-dependent, Peeta definitely prefers being a submissive while Aidan is more a dominant tear down walls & build a castle for his lady kind of a guy while also making dinner. More a combo of the best qualities of both guys, while Big was just a Lancelot douche who couldn’t make up his mind in a typical pansy way & was constantly cheating on his partners to be with Carrie then dumping her for the next hunt. Gale was much more committed to his goals, he wants Freedom, bring down the republic and if there is a chance maybe an awesome girl/partner in the fight which come to think of it would make him more like Luke or even Aidan but instead of freedom fighting, Aidan is just trying to take over the furniture/decorating market.
I am sorry I am not as familiar with the other metaphors but mainly I just hate how these that I did know were so much about secrecy & betrayal of the other guy, which is a bad boy stereotype that I am so tired of seeing…”he’s hot because he can’t keep it in his pants” probably because he has an STD.
Besides while I agree Gale is the best choice in the beginning based on a real history & common interests, Peeta I think is underrated, yes it’s lame that he never tries to get to know Katniss before the games & kind of pathetic that he has a crush on her for no real reason but that’s what a crush is. But the Hunger Games is the first real time & maybe the only time that Peeta has a chance to connect with Katniss, his family is of higher economical class & possibly would have forbid him having a friendship with a girl like her, a girl that could bring trouble to his family if he had befriended her before the games, illegal hunting & talk of rebellion might have got them killed by association. Also who knows how much control & abuse Peeta’s mother inflicted on him, if she would beat him so severely for one mistake. He is a boy with a crush that ends up growing up a lot in the worst circumstances & so of course he makes some mistakes trying to save Katniss but that doesn’t make him a bad choice. Not every guy has to be the pretty boy fighter, sex can be hot & intense with a nice guy too (trust me;) but the best part is that the nice guy holds you when you are scared & will make you breakfast, the fighter usually just passes out & heads out the door first thing in the morning for some sort of rally or training.
Every girl should hold out for breakfast.
So late to this as well, and I enjoyed the debate (very entertaining!), but I love this comment and everything about it. fuzzy hearts for you. <33333
Thank you!
You are super sweet xoxo.
You had a really great point about Katniss not being the type of girl who likes to be treated like a princess. I used to dump guys who were too nice; I liked them except they made me want to puke.
BUT Gale is a bit too far on the other end for Katniss. He actually intimidates her; there are times when she won’t even speak her mind around him. And he cares more about politics and revenge than he does about her ideas, ideals, and even her family.
I think the hijacking tempered Peeta’s sweetness (once a guy has tried to wring your neck, can you really accuse him of being too nice?) and also tried his love by fire. If Gale had a test, he failed. Peeta passed.
Dude,
BUFFY REFERENCE!
I’m not a complete Peeta hater, nor am I hugely against Gale. I just don’t think they developed the Katniss/Gale relationship enough for me to get attached to it.
HOWEVER,
When put that way, I was overcome by explosive laughter when I realized you are absolutely right!!
That or Peeta = Angel. He was doting and totally had the whole martyr thing down. Riley was just a huge winer.
But I won’t get into a Buffy debate.
Thanks for your thoughts. Love it!